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Post by sarah on Jun 23, 2020 14:28:28 GMT -5
sarah , keeping Jefra is good for Hayden cuz in case [godforbid] he loses the challenge, she'd keep him and force a tie! Andrea was semi-close with Jamal, so she'd be more willing to vote Hayden if he lost. That's my take on it, but I believe that's how Locky sees it too. And I agree it was a good move to keep Jefra, even if she's good at challs, he needs more people who can win IC instead of his "enemies" (the ppl he wants out). Not sure that I agree with this because Hayden is the biggest threat to win if you look at Jury votes so Jefra should be wanting to take him out and not keep him safe this round if she had the chance. Don't know what she would do though. |
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Post by sarah on Jun 23, 2020 14:37:31 GMT -5
Ok I have a few things! I think Aubry did way better at her first game than Andrea, and this is nothing personal towards Andrea but yeah.
And I have to immediately disagree that all Jamal did was "ride my coattails." We made moves together and worked opposite sides of the game at all points, always knowing that one of us had almost every single member of the game in our back pocket. He took the brunt of a lot of the moves and was therefore more visible and disliked by people, but I hid more in the shadows which ultimately got me booted. But I can't stand by and have people say that he did nothing because with all of the strategy that he ran past me round after round, he definitely knew what he was doing. Was he a little emotional? Yes, but this game was full of emotional players. But don't let that fool you.
As for Hayden, what amazing moves did he make?! He started off the game so strong when I was working with him, and then he just went downhill and made mistake after mistake and his game fell apart. The moment he lost immunity he was done for because he completely gave up with his social game. A lot of people may not know that but he basically just laid on the ground, played dead, and won immunities. He never controlled any votes or anything from my perspective. Of course winning immunities when you need to is impressive, but keeping through the whole game while playing with the odds stacked against you is more impressive.
Also, yeah, I need answers as to why Andrea played the double vote the merge round, and still don't think Hayden should have played the idol on Jefra. He just wanted to show off that he had it, but the play itself made no sense. And were Andrea Jefra and Hayden really that oblivious that Jamal just couldn't possibly have the idol at Final 5? Did I do a good enough job of convincing Hayden of that? I need some answers from Andrea because it was her life on the line if Jamal idoled, and she went with the plan anyways.
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Post by Silas on Jun 23, 2020 15:36:37 GMT -5
^I will respond to that at some point later today, but I think you did a much, much better job than Jamal, that's 100%. Aubry did good too tbh, but Andrea did better imo (but that's a topic on itself, isn't it? LOL) especially based on post-swap stuff. The only thing that didn't really make sense is why did she play the double vote, without telling me. I guess they wanted to make sure Jamal left then (even though in their mind it should've been 5-4-1 with my vote), but at the same time alienate me by keeping me in the shadows. Besides that Andrea did well cultivating her relationship with Jamal (from merge on) and apparently Hayden (or Jefra? idk) post-Aubry vote. Her second downfall was that she didn't believe Jamal had the idol (def should've voted Phoebe there), when it was spoken of for so long. But maybe Hayden was in control of that trio, and you convinced him Jamal didn't have it? Not impossible imo.
And Jamal (and by extension Phoebe, but not as much) are much bigger jury threats just for being 'outnumbered' at the merge (even though they were in total control based on post-swap tribes, but some people have a pretty black and white view on the game, lol.) so it's an achievement they could claim at FTC. I guess that's how the people in the game view it too, based on Hayden's TC answer last TC (voting out jury threats).
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Post by sarah on Jun 23, 2020 20:49:04 GMT -5
How did I do that much better than Jamal though? He is in Final 4 and I am sitting here with you lovely people. I will give it up to Andrea though that when Aubry seemed to be down and out that Andrea at least tried to keep playing and keep social connections with some people (like Jamal I guess? But not me ...) so that Aubry would be targeted before her, and so that she would have a line of connection when someone needed to use her down the line. But no offense, I think she was just kept in for people to use and then disposed of unfortunately.
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Post by locky on Jun 23, 2020 20:58:36 GMT -5
Jamal was as good at the social game to you Sarah as Hayden had a good social game to me. I did know from the start that Jamal considered you as the most person he talked to but I ignored it because he was saying the same thing about me. But I never considered Jamal an ally because I knew down the line he needed to go.
It was obvious he had an idol just from putting things together with what Phoebe and Silas said but he kept denying it. I'm not sure why Hayden believed that he wouldn't have it but you may have convinced him with that.
It's also clear that Hayden's back was against the wall the moment you guys decided to vote me out. Could he have tried to secure himself some alliances? Sure but it was clear as day that the moment he loses immunity he will be voted out no matter what. So people didn't really give him a choice but to run with immunity and that's very hard to accomplish in a game where everyone is good at challenges.
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Post by locky on Jun 23, 2020 21:03:00 GMT -5
Ugh and now I'm afraid we will see Hayden here  |
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Post by sarah on Jun 23, 2020 21:04:08 GMT -5
Wait so are we saying that Jamal had a good or bad social game? Lol. I admit that I don't think Jamal or Hayden had a superb social game. And I am just proud of myself for keeping Jamal's idol info to myself the whole game and actually taking some heat off him! But it's a shame I didn't get to use the idol for myself Maybe I should have voted Jamal out in the re-vote merge round after he passed the idol to me!!!!  And I think what I said was a little misinterpreted. Up until your boot Locky, Hayden had a great social game, but he stopped trying a lot after you left and told people that he refused to work with them and didn't want to talk to them. That's just a little immature gameplay to me, but some people are emotional I guess. Serious props to him for the immunity wins though, no one can take that from him. But the comment about everyone in this game being good at challenges ... idk if I agree with that LOL. |
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Post by Silas on Jun 23, 2020 21:04:09 GMT -5
I am pretty sure Jamal might have kept denying having the idol to other people, just so the target wouldn't be on him, but lying to me when I was the one who gave him [only] the keys pre-swap + telling me he had started the first task at the Marcus boot, was just stupid. It made it clear as day he didn't have me in his long term plans at that point, when it was just me/him who had all keys and I had given up on the word #grilledcheese. And there are other encounters he lied for no reason and put a target on his back, just out for the spite of it, lol.
And Sarah, he rode your coattails, because it was you who had Locky, Hayden and Jefra under wrap. He only ever had Phoebe, so I guess gj? But she has been there for forever now, so in a way it doesn't really count. But I will get into that later. I think I need to let you guys on OG Raro dynamics at some point, cuz I [given I'm the only OG Raro on the jury lol] will be bringing that up at the FTC.
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Post by Silas on Jun 23, 2020 21:05:38 GMT -5
And Hayden had a good social game imo (idk post-Locky boot tho). He made the effort to talk to me everyday, I wonder why he didn't to others [well I guess I get why, lmfao.]
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Post by locky on Jun 23, 2020 21:05:52 GMT -5
I feel like for me, it's going to be either Hayden or Jamal going. Jamal is a bigger threat than Hayden at this point because he had a very great underdog story. And I hope they are smart enough to know that. Jefra and Phoebe's chance at winning the game is to take out who is the lesser threat to for them to win. Either way Hayden or Jamal are their biggest problems at this point and one of them is most likely winning the game. It's just a matter now of who they would like to hand it to.
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Post by Silas on Jun 23, 2020 21:07:34 GMT -5
I think this will tie 2-2, unless Jefra flips on Hayden. I don't see Phoebe flipping on Jamal, she's been so out of this game for such a long time, it's kinda shocking she's put the most effort into those challenges, lmfao.
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Post by locky on Jun 23, 2020 21:08:56 GMT -5
Wait so are we saying that Jamal had a good or bad social game? Lol. I admit that I don't think Jamal or Hayden had a superb social game. And I am just proud of myself for keeping Jamal's idol info to myself the whole game and actually taking some heat off him! But it's a shame I didn't get to use the idol for myself Maybe I should have voted Jamal out in the re-vote merge round after he passed the idol to me!!!! And I think what I said was a little misinterpreted. Up until your boot Locky, Hayden had a great social game, but he stopped trying a lot after you left and told people that he refused to work with them and didn't want to talk to them. That's just a little immature gameplay to me, but some people are emotional I guess. Serious props to him for the immunity wins though, no one can take that from him. But the comment about everyone in this game being good at challenges ... idk if I agree with that LOL. Well he was devastated that I was voted out Of course he would refuse to work with anyone because he didn't know who he could trust at that point when all the alliances he had before that was a sham. I wouldn't trust anyone as easily either. |
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Post by Silas on Jun 23, 2020 21:13:50 GMT -5
I think Phoebe doesn't care about winning this game tbh. If she voted out Jamal here, her stock goes up in my eyes. But I don't see her doing that, unfortunately. I'm sure the 2 of them are trying to make this "miracle" of surviving as OG Raros through the merge, which is stupid, cuz they dominated post-swap and were never in an extreme minority anyways. But hopefully she does what's best for her for once!
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Post by locky on Jun 23, 2020 21:15:04 GMT -5
If she doesn't care about winning, then why put so much effort in the challenges |
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Post by Silas on Jun 23, 2020 21:16:15 GMT -5
sarah in my eyes, it was always Locky-Hayden [based on what Zach said to me at F11], so if Jamal thought he had Hayden, he was so wrong, lol. [bad read there] He obvs never had him post-Locky vote either, so props to Hayden and that's bad for Jamal yet again. And if Jefra-Hayden were a secret duo, good on them, LOL. Seems they played the middle well!
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